Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik

Hello,

 

Our autopilot (Lisa_M) freezes sometimes. We want to implement a reset procedure using watchdog. Did somebody use watchdog timer of stm32 and implement a reset procedure?

 

When the autopilot freezes, we can not use manuel mode and the airplane becomes out of control. Last week, the modem power was 25mW (Digi 868Mhz) and the autopilot was gone.

 

We are planning to use an FPGA board and take the RC receiver signals to the FPGA. If the autopilot freezes, then the FPGA will continue to drive the servos using manuel mode. We added 2 ppm inputs to the FPGA, and if one of the receivers fails, FPGA switches to the other receiver. We can add more receivers. Currently we are taking ppm inputs, but we can also take RC signals directly to FPGA and then there will be no need for 8 ch ppm encoders. The FPGA board must be very reliable.

 

We are also planning to add a second autopilot (maybe umarim) to the system. The servo outputs of the autopilots will be connected to FPGA, and if one of the autopilots freezes, then the FPGA will switch to the other autopilot.

 

We haven't yet decided how to connect the autopilots. There are some options:

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

 

We haven't started working on 2 autopilot system and I don't know if the second option will work or not.

 

I am waiting for your comments and help about watchdog timer.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 


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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Chris Gough-2
How will you (the FPGA or the second autopilot) know if the primary autopilot freezes?

We did this with 74LS157 multiplexer chip & AVR for the Outback Challenge 2013 competition. It was a proto-board/wire-wrap implementation (no PCB to share sorry) but another team has made a cleaner version here:

http://h2joe.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/team-builds-custom-failsafe-device/

That device is for complying with competition rules, not solving a reliability problem. The extra complexity is dubious safety in my opinion.

Why is your autopilot freezing? Have you ruled out brownout? Can you reproduce it on the bench?

Chris Gough

On 25/11/2013, at 6:57 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Our autopilot (Lisa_M) freezes sometimes. We want to implement a reset procedure using watchdog. Did somebody use watchdog timer of stm32 and implement a reset procedure?

 

When the autopilot freezes, we can not use manuel mode and the airplane becomes out of control. Last week, the modem power was 25mW (Digi 868Mhz) and the autopilot was gone.

 

We are planning to use an FPGA board and take the RC receiver signals to the FPGA. If the autopilot freezes, then the FPGA will continue to drive the servos using manuel mode. We added 2 ppm inputs to the FPGA, and if one of the receivers fails, FPGA switches to the other receiver. We can add more receivers. Currently we are taking ppm inputs, but we can also take RC signals directly to FPGA and then there will be no need for 8 ch ppm encoders. The FPGA board must be very reliable.

 

We are also planning to add a second autopilot (maybe umarim) to the system. The servo outputs of the autopilots will be connected to FPGA, and if one of the autopilots freezes, then the FPGA will switch to the other autopilot.

 

We haven't yet decided how to connect the autopilots. There are some options:

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

 

We haven't started working on 2 autopilot system and I don't know if the second option will work or not.

 

I am waiting for your comments and help about watchdog timer.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik

Hi Chris,

 

> How will you (the FPGA or the second autopilot) know if the primary autopilot freezes?

 

We are planning to take a signal from the autopilot which regularly kicks the FPGA (like regular watchdog timer of microprocessor).  Sometimes, the system timer led of autopilot works (blinks at a different rate then 1Hz), but the imu does not work. Therefore, we may also get the AHRS align led.

Another option is, the FPGA can listen the Modem RX link. And from GCS, we can send a command to the FPGA showing the autopilot that we want to switch.  When the FPGA detects this command, it switches the autopilot.

 

 

>Why is your autopilot freezing? Have you ruled out brownout? Can you reproduce it on the bench?

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

 

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

 

Refik

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 10:54 AM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

How will you (the FPGA or the second autopilot) know if the primary autopilot freezes?

 

We did this with 74LS157 multiplexer chip & AVR for the Outback Challenge 2013 competition. It was a proto-board/wire-wrap implementation (no PCB to share sorry) but another team has made a cleaner version here:

 

http://h2joe.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/team-builds-custom-failsafe-device/

 

That device is for complying with competition rules, not solving a reliability problem. The extra complexity is dubious safety in my opinion.



Why is your autopilot freezing? Have you ruled out brownout? Can you reproduce it on the bench?


Chris Gough


On 25/11/2013, at 6:57 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Our autopilot (Lisa_M) freezes sometimes. We want to implement a reset procedure using watchdog. Did somebody use watchdog timer of stm32 and implement a reset procedure?

 

When the autopilot freezes, we can not use manuel mode and the airplane becomes out of control. Last week, the modem power was 25mW (Digi 868Mhz) and the autopilot was gone.

 

We are planning to use an FPGA board and take the RC receiver signals to the FPGA. If the autopilot freezes, then the FPGA will continue to drive the servos using manuel mode. We added 2 ppm inputs to the FPGA, and if one of the receivers fails, FPGA switches to the other receiver. We can add more receivers. Currently we are taking ppm inputs, but we can also take RC signals directly to FPGA and then there will be no need for 8 ch ppm encoders. The FPGA board must be very reliable.

 

We are also planning to add a second autopilot (maybe umarim) to the system. The servo outputs of the autopilots will be connected to FPGA, and if one of the autopilots freezes, then the FPGA will switch to the other autopilot.

 

We haven't yet decided how to connect the autopilots. There are some options:

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

 

We haven't started working on 2 autopilot system and I don't know if the second option will work or not.

 

I am waiting for your comments and help about watchdog timer.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Chris Gough-2

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik

Hi Chris,

 

>What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

We connect the modem directly to Lisa. Lisa voltage input is connected to 12V.

 

For airspeed ets and gps, we are using a separate L7805CV and convert 12V to 5V. It's capable of delivering 1.5A, but I must check if the voltage drops temporarily below 5V.

 

>What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

Lisa M does not always upload correctly. I mean the problematic part of the code as the corrupted part of the uploaded code. It does not correlate with a burst of telemetry.

 

Our airspeed ets sensor's I2C inputs are always connected to Lisa, also during upload. Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough


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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Chris Gough-2

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

Chris Gough

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

agressiva
When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

Chris Gough

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Michal Podhradsky
Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:
When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

Chris Gough

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Michal Podhradsky
Imho the easiest solution is an external watchdog timer - instead of developing FPGA you can just buy a single watchdog chip and connect it to one of the autopilots I/O pins.

That would be also way more reliable by aerospace standards.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Michal Podhradsky <[hidden email]> wrote:
Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:
When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]

Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

Chris Gough

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik
In reply to this post by Michal Podhradsky

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Michal Podhradsky
Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty


and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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[hidden email]
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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik

Thanks Michal...

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

_______________________________________________
Paparazzi-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel


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[hidden email]
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[hidden email]
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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Stephen Dwyer
Hello,

A couple comments that might help:

It definitely sounds like you have a power problem that causes resets or brownouts (after which who knows what might happen, given no watchdog currently). I would really suggest avoiding the use of the 5V linear regulator onboard Lisa/M v2 unless you are power nothing else. This is a known design limitation - the regulator can not really handle any peripheral loads as it is only rated for 250mA. I like to power my board with 5V directly and bypass the onboard 5V regulator. See http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Lisa/M_v20#Powering_the_Board for more details. My guess is your radio draws perhaps 100mA or more, and if you consider all the other peripherals and the STM32 draw as well, at 12V input brownout or thermal shutdown is highly likely.

Regarding i2c, I am not 100% sure the current status of that issue, but I do know trying to talk to the eagle tree sensor before it is ready causes the i2c hardware to lock up. I also think that you might be able to power the eagle tree sensor a little bit just over the datalines, especially if there are pullup resistors letting some current through.

I think setting up a watchdog and resetting the autopilot in flight is fairly dangerous. You will need to carefully comb through all the code and check all the initialization. For one, if you are using an internal AHRS, the AHRS needs be aligned on startup without moving the IMU. This is difficult if the aircraft is already in the air... If you are only wishing to get back into a mode where you can manually fly the aircraft, that would be much easier. Of course, if you are using an external INS/AHRS then this alignment isn't required.

I think your best bet is still to look at your power supply and clean that up (also make sure no ground loops), and bench test after that to see if you still have failures.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can weigh in as to whether an in-flight restart is feasible.

Thanks,
-Stephen Dwyer


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks Michal...

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

_______________________________________________
Paparazzi-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel


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[hidden email]
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[hidden email]
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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik

Hi Stephen,

Thank you very much for the comments,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Stephen Dwyer
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 10:02 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Hello,

 

A couple comments that might help:

 

It definitely sounds like you have a power problem that causes resets or brownouts (after which who knows what might happen, given no watchdog currently). I would really suggest avoiding the use of the 5V linear regulator onboard Lisa/M v2 unless you are power nothing else. This is a known design limitation - the regulator can not really handle any peripheral loads as it is only rated for 250mA. I like to power my board with 5V directly and bypass the onboard 5V regulator. See http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Lisa/M_v20#Powering_the_Board for more details. My guess is your radio draws perhaps 100mA or more, and if you consider all the other peripherals and the STM32 draw as well, at 12V input brownout or thermal shutdown is highly likely.

 

Regarding i2c, I am not 100% sure the current status of that issue, but I do know trying to talk to the eagle tree sensor before it is ready causes the i2c hardware to lock up. I also think that you might be able to power the eagle tree sensor a little bit just over the datalines, especially if there are pullup resistors letting some current through.

 

I think setting up a watchdog and resetting the autopilot in flight is fairly dangerous. You will need to carefully comb through all the code and check all the initialization. For one, if you are using an internal AHRS, the AHRS needs be aligned on startup without moving the IMU. This is difficult if the aircraft is already in the air... If you are only wishing to get back into a mode where you can manually fly the aircraft, that would be much easier. Of course, if you are using an external INS/AHRS then this alignment isn't required.

 

I think your best bet is still to look at your power supply and clean that up (also make sure no ground loops), and bench test after that to see if you still have failures.

 

Perhaps someone with more knowledge can weigh in as to whether an in-flight restart is feasible.

 

Thanks,

-Stephen Dwyer

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks Michal...

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Sergey Krukowski
Hi!

Want also add my 2 cent.
It looks like a hardware problem of your particular board sample. But  
definitely it's not a good sign. There is no way to get the AP more stable  
with an external circuitry rather than to get the AP be stable itself. It  
just HAS to work for hours in full configuration on the ground before you  
allow yourself to go flying with it.
Just try to follow all of the recommendations guys suggested here.

Best Regards,
Sergey

> Hi Stephen,
>
> Thank you very much for the comments,
>
> Refik
>
>
> From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]
> [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Stephen Dwyer
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 10:02 PM
> To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
> Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems
> for reliability
>
>
> Hello,
>
>
> A couple comments that might help:
>
>
> It definitely sounds like you have a power problem that causes resets or
> brownouts (after which who knows what might happen, given no watchdog
> currently). I would really suggest avoiding the use of the 5V linear
> regulator onboard Lisa/M v2 unless you are power nothing else. This is a
> known design limitation - the regulator can not really handle any  
> peripheral
> loads as it is only rated for 250mA. I like to power my board with 5V
> directly and bypass the onboard 5V regulator. See
> http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Lisa/M_v20#Powering_the_Board for more
> details. My guess is your radio draws perhaps 100mA or more, and if you
> consider all the other peripherals and the STM32 draw as well, at 12V  
> input
> brownout or thermal shutdown is highly likely.
>
>
> Regarding i2c, I am not 100% sure the current status of that issue, but  
> I do
> know trying to talk to the eagle tree sensor before it is ready causes  
> the
> i2c hardware to lock up. I also think that you might be able to power the
> eagle tree sensor a little bit just over the datalines, especially if  
> there
> are pullup resistors letting some current through.
>
>
> I think setting up a watchdog and resetting the autopilot in flight is
> fairly dangerous. You will need to carefully comb through all the code  
> and
> check all the initialization. For one, if you are using an internal AHRS,
> the AHRS needs be aligned on startup without moving the IMU. This is
> difficult if the aircraft is already in the air... If you are only  
> wishing
> to get back into a mode where you can manually fly the aircraft, that  
> would
> be much easier. Of course, if you are using an external INS/AHRS then  
> this
> alignment isn't required.
>
>
> I think your best bet is still to look at your power supply and clean  
> that
> up (also make sure no ground loops), and bench test after that to see if  
> you
> still have failures.
>
>
> Perhaps someone with more knowledge can weigh in as to whether an  
> in-flight
> restart is feasible.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> -Stephen Dwyer
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks Michal...
>
>
> From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]
> [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever
> <mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces%2Brefiksever>  
> =[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
>
>
> To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
> Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems
> for reliability
>
>
> Refik,
>
> just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have  
> that
> flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  
> -
> obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time  
> then
> it usually works.
>
> Try this command sequence in gdb:
> target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
> monitor jtag_scan
> attach 1
> monitor vector_catch disable hard
> set mem inaccessible-by-default off
> monitor option erase
> set print pretty
>
> and then load the target
> .
>
> monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but  
> sometimes
> it just doesn't work.
>
> M
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>
> Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the
> voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the  
> voltage
> from a different supply.
>
>
> Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and  
> temperature
> sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious  
> problem.
>
>
> We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We
> tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it  
> can
> not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from  
> terminal,
> it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.
>
>
> We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am
> planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It
> will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always  
> be
> on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope  
> that
> the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog
> timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use
> the FPGA for that purpose.
>
>
> Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?
>
>
> 1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and
> the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.
>
>
> 2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same
> commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS.
>
>
> 3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on  
> standby
> mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will  
> bring
> the plane to the standby.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Refik
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]
> [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever
> <mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces%2Brefiksever>  
> =[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM
>
>
> To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
> Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems
> for reliability
>
>
> Refik,
>
> since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing
> the autopilot to freeze  
> (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531).
> What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?
>
> Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That
> would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.
>
> M
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
> This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator  
> work
> very hot and then turn off.
>
> To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.
>
> After this the board not hang anymore.
>
>   _____
>
> From: [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
> To: [hidden email]
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems
> for reliability
>
>  Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment
> display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins.  
> Does it
> create a problem in the upload?
>
> I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one,
> testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person
> has a more informed idea...
>
>
> Chris Gough
>
>
> Refik
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]
> [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever
> <mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces%2Brefiksever>  
> =[hidden email]] On
> Behalf Of Chris Gough
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
> To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
> Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems
> for reliability
>
>
>
> When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work
> properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the
> behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We  
> can
> see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.
>
> That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the
> power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler  
> than a
> failsafe/failover system.
>
>
> Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these  
> components
> are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.
>
> Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that  
> we
> have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification
> procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it
> jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.
>
> What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst  
> of
> telemetry transmission?
>
>
> What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot?
>
>
> Chris Gough
>
> _______________________________________________
> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Paparazzi-devel mailing  
> list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>
>


--
Erstellt mit Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/mail/

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik
In reply to this post by refik

Hi Michal,

 

We want to readback the file using Blackmagic and check if it is uploaded correctly or not. Could you please send the commands for readback of the flash?

 

Regards,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Refik Sever
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 9:04 PM
To: 'Paparazzi UAV devel list'
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Thanks Michal...

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Michal Podhradsky
Sorry I dont know as I never did that. Maybe gdb man pages?
If you figure out how to read the binary back, could you please share it?
M


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Michal,

 

We want to readback the file using Blackmagic and check if it is uploaded correctly or not. Could you please send the commands for readback of the flash?

 

Regards,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Refik Sever
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 9:04 PM


To: 'Paparazzi UAV devel list'
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Thanks Michal...

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

refik

Hi Michal,

We will share if we can find it.

Thanks,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 11:51 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Sorry I dont know as I never did that. Maybe gdb man pages?

If you figure out how to read the binary back, could you please share it?

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Michal,

 

We want to readback the file using Blackmagic and check if it is uploaded correctly or not. Could you please send the commands for readback of the flash?

 

Regards,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Refik Sever
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 9:04 PM


To: 'Paparazzi UAV devel list'
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Thanks Michal...

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Hector Garcia de Marina
In reply to this post by refik

Just in case, you can do the trick easily with openocd if you have a 2232 from ftdi around.

On 25 Nov 2013 22:43, "Refik Sever" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Michal,

 

We want to readback the file using Blackmagic and check if it is uploaded correctly or not. Could you please send the commands for readback of the flash?

 

Regards,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Refik Sever
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 9:04 PM
To: 'Paparazzi UAV devel list'
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Thanks Michal...

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

_______________________________________________
Paparazzi-devel mailing list
[hidden email]
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[hidden email]
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[hidden email]
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[hidden email]
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Re: simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

Hector Garcia de Marina
In reply to this post by Michal Podhradsky

Sorry by the two separated emails. Reading the binary is not related with gdb. Your dongle must do the work, I have never worked with the blackmagic, but it sounds strange that it can not read or verify the flash once it writes the binary, check if there is an 'verify' flag with your write command.

On 25 Nov 2013 22:50, "Michal Podhradsky" <[hidden email]> wrote:
Sorry I dont know as I never did that. Maybe gdb man pages?
If you figure out how to read the binary back, could you please share it?
M


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:43 PM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Michal,

 

We want to readback the file using Blackmagic and check if it is uploaded correctly or not. Could you please send the commands for readback of the flash?

 

Regards,

Refik

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Refik Sever
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 9:04 PM


To: 'Paparazzi UAV devel list'
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Thanks Michal...

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 8:59 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

just a side note - we have BlackMagic debugger and pretty often we have that flash erase error (both when uploading from Eclipse or Paparazzi center  - obviously it is gdb related thing). But you can upload for second time then it usually works.

Try this command sequence in gdb:
target extended-remote /dev/ttyACM0
monitor jtag_scan
attach 1
monitor vector_catch disable hard
set mem inaccessible-by-default off
monitor option erase
set print pretty

and then load the target
.

monitor option erase should undo the flash write protection, but sometimes it just doesn't work.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Refik Sever <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello,

 

Chris, I observed that when the modem tx power is above 25mW, then the voltage of modem drops to 4V. Thanks for warning. We will give the voltage from a different supply.

 

Michal, I was not aware of I2C issue. We are using airspeed and temperature sensors connected to I2C. It seems that the I2C issue is a serious problem.

 

We bought a BlackMagic probe and today we start working on debugging. We tried to upload using JTAG cable, but it always gives an error that it can not erase the flash when we upload from GCS. When we upload from terminal, it usually uploads successfully and sometimes it gives the same error.

 

We want to have a very reliable system which can work for hours. I am planning to use a second autopilot which does not have any peripheral. It will be connected only to GPS, and maybe to modem also.  It will always be on standby mode.  I ordered an FPGA board. If it works porperly, I hope that the system will be more reliable.  And I understand that using a watchdog timer outside of the microcontroller will be better. I am planning to use the FPGA for that purpose.

 

Do you have recommendations about the connection of the second autopilot?

 

1. We can add the second autopilot with a second modem using API mode and the GCS will see the two autopilots as 2 different airplanes.

 

2. We can add only one modem and both of the autopilots will receive same commands from GCS, but only one of them transmits data to GCS. 

 

3. The second autopilot will not have a modem. It will always be on standby mode. If the primary autopilot will freeze, the second autopilot will bring the plane to the standby.

 

Regards,

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: paparazzi-devel-bounces+refiksever=[hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michal Podhradsky
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 7:23 PM


To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

Refik,

since you mentioned using I2C, look at the pending issue with I2C causing the autopilot to freeze (https://github.com/paparazzi/paparazzi/pull/531). What happens if you disable the I2C sensor, does it still hang?

Also, do you have a debugger (http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/JTAG)? That would be probably the easiest way to find what happened.

M

 

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, Eduardo lavratti <[hidden email]> wrote:

When i do the first test with mine lisa_m it reset or hang.
This occur when i power the board with 12v and the internal regulator work very hot and then turn off.

To solve this i use a external 7.4volt regulator that power the board.

After this the board not hang anymore.


From: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 00:51:55 +1100
To: [hidden email]


Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 Although we do not give power to the Ets in the upload, its 7 segment display works and blinks. I think that it takes power from I2C pins. Does it create a problem in the upload?

I don't know. Can you remove everything then add them back one by one, testing in between? That's software-guy thinking, maybe a hardware person has a more informed idea...

 

Chris Gough

 

Refik

 

 

 

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]=[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Chris Gough
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 2:48 PM
To: Paparazzi UAV devel list
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] simultaneously using two autopilot systems for reliability

 

 

When the modem TX power is 25mw or higher, then the IMU does not work properly and also does the autopilot. It still sends messages, but the behaviour is not normal. The PFD screen does not work properly etc. We can see it on the bench. When the TX power is 1mW, then it works properly.

That makes me very suspicious of a power supply problem. Increasing the power supply (or powering the modem independently) is so much simpler than a failsafe/failover system.

 

Sorry if you've exhausted this line of enquiry already, but these components are usually very reliable so something must be going wrong.

Sometimes, it completely freezes and the leds do not blink. I think that we have also problems in upload.  We haven't yet tried the verification procedure of uploaded stream.  The autopilot starts working, but when it jumps to a problematic part of the code, then it stops.

What is the problematic part of the code? Does it correlate with a burst of telemetry transmission?

 

What peripherals do you have on the powered from the autopilot? 

 

Chris Gough

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[hidden email]
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